WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

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Angel
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Joined: 08/16/2009 - 11:51
WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Don't normally care about such things.However, I saw a job on here today for 2.1m, based in a non- event City. It was an 8 hour per day job, posted by a famous recruiter. Recruiters , please stop lining your pockets and do more to help the people who give you a living. Without us, you are nothing!!!That is at least a 2.6m job for those hours.If the hours were normal, I would'nt say much.That's just ripping people off, if you ask me.

Rutherford
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Joined: 11/26/2009 - 16:01
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Calm down.  Recruiters just advertise jobs for schools.  They don't set the terms of employment.  Complaining about recruiters is like complaining about craigslist advertising low-paying jobs.  

Paul Gaasenbeek
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Joined: 08/25/2009 - 15:04
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Wrong Rutherford. Recruiters do set prices as the lower they go and can get teachers the more schoolswill want to hire them. The abundance of recruiters are actually responsible for low wages. Why pay a recruiter to find someone for 2.5 if someone is willing to low ball for 2.1? The reality it is the teachers that need to have some dignity and refuse such jobs and thus increase offers but you know how well that works here. People talk about surplus teachers but that is a crock-many jobs here remain vacant because who wants to come here and work for less than 2g a month. Back in 2003 2mil was worth around $2200 Canadian but now 1900 maybe. Newbies dont realize how lousy things are here now but oh well, that is evolution I guess. And i did not even mention inflation-everything has doubled in price since 2003 pretty much. It is nuts here. Anyway, good luck to all and remember, whatever is being offered is just a suggestion-you can ask for more.

Angel
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Joined: 08/16/2009 - 11:51
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Too right- However, I have ask myself if Waykook recruiters would do the same, yes!!!

Paul Gaasenbeek
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Joined: 08/25/2009 - 15:04
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

What do you mean? Do foreign recruiters low ball?

 

Angel
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Joined: 08/16/2009 - 11:51
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Never met one- there was an Aussie guy called Andrew from Changwon years ago, and someone on  here claiming to be an advisor.I am guessing they would be the same to get the business.

supermansfoot
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Joined: 11/02/2009 - 20:12
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

I though 2.1mil was an average wage. Plenty of jobs only offer that. Also anytime I have tried to negotiate I have either been told bluntly "no" or looked over for another candidate.

Ti Guy Says Hi
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Joined: 08/07/2009 - 14:30
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

2.1 mill was the wage in 2001 for someone with previous exp in Korea which is why I stopped teaching 1.5 years ago.

To make real money legitimately here as a teacher, you need to be an F visa holder = 4-5 mill per month if you are driven (6 mill if they are superstars). Base salary should be 2.6-2.8 adjusted for inflation but the recruiter cabal needs to screw their fee out of some place and it just happens to be the steady supply of FOB's.

 

Travis Kemp
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Joined: 12/21/2009 - 17:58
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

2.1? no way. i made 2.3 (lucky).but since 2003 salaries dropped (i think they used the money to pay off the 10 stadiums they foolishly built that get no f#$^ng usage), and not until i did 3 yr jail term with MoE  did i ever get that kind of money again, but 40 hour work week? nah, thats not worth 2.5 not for what you get paid to do(entertain and desk warm). maybe i'm just not comfortable being stuck in a desk during vacation when korean teachers get holiday time. so i left. and the tropics have been treating me well, financially way better than the precious KRW.

stop feeding the recruiters bellies. if they don't give you what you want, leave. go home. do something else. get credentials. esl in korea has always been a McJOB. those are aplenty back home.

Ti Guy Says Hi
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Joined: 08/07/2009 - 14:30
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Yep Travis, I was being conservative on salaries.Glad to hear you also escaped the circus that is the majority of ESL jobs in Korea.

jpaul0983
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Joined: 02/20/2010 - 19:39
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

I don't understand the point of this post. It's not like you were tricked into a low salary. If there's too many teachers then wages will go down. That's just how it is. If they want to offer 1.5m and pocket the rest, well no teacher in their right mind would take that so the wage goes up. around 2-2.2m is a wage foreigners are willing to accept and schools are willing to pay.

While i agree that recruiters take a big chunk of money, i actually feel sorry for a lot of schools because student numbers in the whole industry are down this year, both schools i work for now are struggling and all the agency fees, airfares and bonus payments are bankrupting them. 

Btw agency fees are worked out on a percentage of salary. It's something like 50% of a month's salary for placing you, and another x% either at 6 months or 12 months or both. The agencies don't get to pocket the difference between the school's agreed salary and what they offer you. Infact the less they offered you, the less money they get for their service. In all probability, that job listing is the result of a school not being able to afford to pay a decent salary. 

woodsman
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Joined: 06/24/2010 - 10:07
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Wow, loic and sound economic reasoning. Totally lost on the peanut gallery here.

Angel
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Joined: 08/16/2009 - 11:51
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Where did you hear that horse manure? In a dream, bar? Like you really know what's going on Woodsman. It's a numbers game, pure and simple. The profit is in the numbers.I don't credit these recruiters with the intelligence to construct such complex deals. Pull the other one JP.

michaeldlee
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Joined: 02/24/2011 - 00:57
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

To clarify, the salary amount of a position has nothing to do with recruiters 'lining their pockets'.  Salaries are set by schools.  The schools submit their terms and conditions to the recruiter entity.  The recruiter has zero influence on the terms that the school offers.  What can they do?  Turn away a client?  Come on, bro.  Don't tell me you'd be noble enough to turn away business...

'Without us, you're nothing!!!'  That's just LOL material, right there.  What exactly are you?  You're part of a surplus resource group in a bad economic era.  What do you expect?  I'm in the States currently after eight years in Korea...there are plenty that would kill to be working 8 hours a day and take home two thousand dollars every month.

8 hours a day at work!  Oh my god, that's so crazy!...Come on.  You'll teach 120 hours a month, which is pretty standard.  I searched around briefly and found exactly zero that paid 2.6 among positions advertised, currently. 

As I've said before...if you don't like the terms of a position, then don't apply.  If you have a serious problem with wages, form a union.  It's that simple.  Recruiting is a business.  It's also a service that foreigners depend upon to find teaching positions.  So...in a sense, it goes both ways.  If you have such problems with recruiters, then don't use one.  Find a school yourself. 

 

Angel
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Joined: 08/16/2009 - 11:51
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

LoZZZzzzz! Speak for yourself. BTW $2,000 is chump change and a loser's salary, as far as I'm concerned.Anyone with a set of plums, two working eyes, hands and ears can do better than that.Well you need that for your medical here.For 8 hours in Korea, or elsewhere in the 1st World, that's a piss poor effort.I was passing comment on the mafia (th--ves in my opinion) who run this game. If you believe that the schools set the wages, it's no wonder you are back there.I wonder if you are gonna get that promotion from the grill anytime soon.

Paul Gaasenbeek
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Joined: 08/25/2009 - 15:04
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Again, the recruiters help set the wage by slashing rates and low balling other recruiters. Years ago when

there were very few recruiters wages were steadily going up; now, they have completely stalled. Too many

cooks spoil the broth and the reality is hagwons shop around and secure the cheapest recruiter to help

them get the cheapest labor. If you have been here for sometime you would know this just from talking to recruiters

who have become friends over time. They are good people but the biz is very cut throat and they do what they

have to, to stay alive. This is the reality. Personally, I think schools should save their money and recruit for

themsleves and pass that money along to teachers so they will be happy and wont leave when they see

another school with better pay but that is just me. But to think recruiters are not partly responsible for setting

wages is plain wrong. Hagwons, people taking low paying jobs and recruiters are all reason wages are poor

here now compared to the early 2000's. Minimum wage was 2500 or so back then but is now 5000 per hour.

Our wages have stayed the same in the last 4/5 years and this is not because there are more hagwons but because

there are more recruiters taking a cut. That is the reality. Schools have upped their prices but ours have stayed the same.

Good luck and happy hunting.

michaeldlee
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Joined: 02/24/2011 - 00:57
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Uhhh...I am an exective director of an environmental technology firm.  Grill?

$2000 USD after taxes and deductions is a competitve salary in the current U.S. market.

If you were so qualified and deserved to earn more money, you wouldn't be on here complaining about jobs.

Angel
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Joined: 08/16/2009 - 11:51
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Was I complaining or pointing it out? If you're what you say you are, I'm a smashing pumpkin.I don't like to brag but I do OK. I have enough extra to go to Casinos, enjoy the track, have two holidays a year, and a little left to buy a reasonable car for myself.I don't have to deal recruiters.I recntly met a scruffy and poorly dressed guy who studies moss ecosystems here, or the animals in it, is that you?I can't tell you how mant ED have met in my life.The successful EDs I know don't have time to post here.I don't claim to be an ED, rich , or whatever, but I'm not complaining about my lot. I was trying to highlight how the salaries seem to be stagnating, considering the higher demands required here nowadays.

woodsman
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Joined: 06/24/2010 - 10:07
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Salaries are stagnant because the 9% plus unemployment in the US (and similar conditions in Canada, Australia, NZ, etc) is resulting in more and more native speakers to Korea who all challenge for the same jobs. You yourself made a similar comment. It's not due to an evil cabal of recruiters conspiring to keep wages down. But that kind of logic doesn't get through to you.

Angel
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Joined: 08/16/2009 - 11:51
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

 B-llsh-t! That's a 9% with an amazing skill set, if you are making that comparison.What expertise do you have in this industry?That logic just stereotypes us as losers with no skills and reinforces the cabal mentality.Speak for yourself, don't bracket me, us, into your mind-set.I'm sure they must be loving your post right now.

2.1 m for 8 hours is a -------- joke!Go and flip burgers if you think this OK.

 

 

 

Angel
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Joined: 08/16/2009 - 11:51
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Why don't Korea bridge take it over , provide a list of employers and teachers with ratings.

KB could charge a yearly membership fee and cut the recruiters out of the ball game. That way Hakwons can't lowball, treat staff badly. Teachers also registerred on here and rated on here.Testimonials could be left in this section.The Manager could make more money on volume and cutting out the recruiters.The Manager could check the testimonials and ban any Hakwons or blacklist them.

He could also do the same for teachers who have behaved badly and been unprofessional.KB could have an F2, F4 and E2 section. He could hire some of these former recruiters to run that part of the business. eg checking od documents, introductions and check updates, visas, etc.The teacher could contact the department directly, or a moderator for advice.Could even assign mentors for the first three months on here.Could use regional mentors too.They could help the teacher settle in and socialise for a small fee.

 

Then sell the site to a recuiters for a small fortune.(lol)

Dogarse
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Joined: 04/15/2010 - 23:53
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Where do you get your crack from Angel?

You seem to be one of the most prolific posters here and I have don't think I've ever seen an accurate thing that you have written.

Angel
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Joined: 08/16/2009 - 11:51
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

I think you've cracked one out. Check my posts, few and far between, usually on topics I've previously commented on. Musta tweeked a nerve, don't get too excited.With a name like that , who'd be surprised.Proves my personal theory about low quality of newbies here.I think the footie song goes, "Who are ya, who are ya, who are ya"?Incidentally, what have you to say on the matter then?Been here since 2010, well done.When you have some porridge under belt, you can spout off what you like. Easy to be plebian hey? Are you unable to offer anything  but personal criticism to the debate here. It's easy to be a know it- f-ck- all- loser , why don't you keep stumph.In fact, here's a 100 won coupon, call someone who gives a rat's -----.

supermansfoot
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Joined: 11/02/2009 - 20:12
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

I still can't see what the problem is. On any website the average wage is 2.1mil - 2.3mil a month. It's not going up because people accept that amount and choose to come here... in fact many stay.

If you were an employer or a recruiter would you offer more money when people accept less?

 

Lets flip the situation... as a potential employee do you think "Hmmmm I'm gonna ignore this position offering 3mil because this one offering 2.1mil is fairer to the teaching industry"?

Angel
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Joined: 08/16/2009 - 11:51
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Agreed and have done before. The problem is far more complex than that, it has so many interlocking facets. The basic underlying truth is simple.  The privates industry is the stack of cards holding up this industry. Not for long though, more often bitter F2s will tell on folks. Later, it will change after Governmental cut backs next year.

Basic Overview- Recruiters who want to sell, and deliver us like cattle. Neatly packaged items of perfection, with no problems to employers. These want cheap labor, new people too lazy to research; too impatient to wait and too silly to know the difference. I don't understand the logic of it. Basically, Hakwons should accept that they are merely a stepping stone to a better job and not expect a good work ethic or quality in that period. Well, at the current pay rate.

Recruiter- these under pressure to supply. Basically, a shit sandwich for them. Yet, they are quick enough to collect their fees. How many times did you see your recruiter after the initial introduction. How helpful were they to you. How annoying were they when the shit hit the fan? A few people were threatened, dumped and left in a mess back in the day. Is it different today?? Still reading stories on here, it means they are not looking after everyone.

Employee- after settling in period, quickly sees that others are on a better deal and may instantly feel they've been ripped off. This leads to a cycle of negativity and perhaps bitterness. I've seen it so many times. "Wow, I love it here", quite often heard for the first three months. The next 6 months being all complaints and a miserable slog. The last 3 are happy because the ends in sight, and the bonus is going to pay for that pain. Ah, yes, the usual holiday to Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia. Return to PS jobs.

Employer- knows the risks, knows the animal and still takes the gamble. Why on earth do you create an environment which is so one-sided?What's the point of saving money, if your loses are more in the long term e.g. students? For all of you rocket scientists out there, this is not sound economics and certainly not logical. What's the point of having to find a replacement if it isn't cost effective? All of the stress and worry is good for the business. The complaints, kids quitting , after all Word of Mouth is the most effective marketing tool. End results : employee leaves, costs of replacement ,waiting months, new paperwork, new settling problems with new employee, anxiety, sleepless nights, stress and so the cycle is repeated.

Actually,this does not affect me, but I  do worry about the industry. If you pay peanuts, what do you expect. More and more often poor candidates arrive, leave and Hakwons close. This is not just as a result of the economy. Consumer confidence has led parents back to privates, on-line teaching and tele-teaching. Is there money, yes!, Is the confidence in the product, maybe not.

Finally, when all of the school jobs end, some will ship off to China where they are getting serious about this Industry. After all, Korea is not the center of the ESL industry. It seems to me, salaries for E2 visas will never match inflationary pressures, exchanges rate fluctuations. There will be even more competition for Hakwon jobs when Government pulls finances out this year and next. More snitching by resentful types. More deportations because salaries are too low for F visas to stand.Where will the recuiters be then??

 

( Disclaimer- these are my personal views based on many years experience within, now outside of the recruitment and Hakwon business)

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EnglishWithDave
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Joined: 08/26/2011 - 20:08
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

I agree Angel.  Recruiters make millions by exploiting the very people that support them - the teachers (who are often underpaid) and the students (who are ALWAYS overcharged)!

How about this - let's start a recruiter boycott.

Stick with private students.  Pay yourself a fair price, and charge the students a

fair price.  (No more limo rides for CEO's!)

 

Peace, and good luck.

 

Dave Martinovich - EnglishWithDave

Angel
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Joined: 08/16/2009 - 11:51
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

Love it, cheers Dave.

teachkorea21
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Joined: 05/24/2010 - 11:16
Re: WTF- Recruiters, do you care???

LOL

This has turned into a bit of a crapfest... it may interest some of you to google inflation, unemployment and cost of living in the U.S. 

I just returned from California where unemployment in the vally has sored to 18-20% but that is mostly among migrant popluations(wonder what most ESL teachers are???). But a more relevant issue is that 19,000 Teachers recieved a pink slip as well. That does not mean they will have no job, that means the state can fire them before school if there is no money. So for many people that is not too stable. And that is Californa, the rest of the country is no better off.

 

All that to say 2.0 is crap, but for most of the people who want to do this for a season, they have no idea that in 2003 1100 won would buy an import beer at the store. Or that taxis were 1200 won. But then again there was no Costco, or proliferation of western Food other than McD's...

 

Progress comes at a cost...