Nice post annon. I could not agree more with you. And the poking the nose out has got to be one of the scariest things here-that and just going around corners or lane changing without looking. You always need to be on guard when driving but here more so. Heck, even when walking on a sidewalk, if there is even one, can get you run over by a motorcycle or scooter. Heads up!
Funny, I din't hear any jokes. What was the punch line? Koreans are stupid? That's what you implied with your ridiculous made up "fact" about the car seats. In fact, I heard quite a lot of "facts" with a questionable amount of truthiness being herded out to support your weak constructions. You spew hateful diatribe based on race to support your own feelings of inadequacy and then when challenged you pull out the old "it was a joke:" argument. You're a weak little man. The problem is, you're full of hot air and you don't like to get called on it.You tried to pull a pissing contest with me based on time in Korea and when that didn't work you switched gears to the old and quite lame "don't be so serious, dude" line of weak ass argument.
Now you're throwing out more random "facts" so you can be Kbridge's resident know-nothing. The "quality of living" as you call it is referred to as the Better Life Index by the OECD and Korea ranks right around the OECD average. http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/ (download the excel file). Korea is also not last in social spending as a part of GDP. It is ahead of Mexico so while you weren't too far off the mark, the fact is you are never too far from distorting a fact to suit your needs. But even so, this metric is not meaningful without supporting analysis. I know this is hard for you as you yourself admit you are not good at the critical thinking thing so let me spell it out for you. S. Korea's governement spending as a part of GDP overall is quite low, in fact, it's the lowest of the OECD nations. That being said, it's spending on economic affairs is quite high. Coupled with a low individual tax rate, it means S. Koreans are in a better position to take care of their own needs as a capitalist country. See how that can be spun the other way?
Clearly there are some issues that need addressing Korea but to you, rather than being a part of the many issues that plague all nations to some greater or lesser degree, they are a sign of Korea's otherness, and that is what is objectionable and racist about your pathetically constructed criticisms.
Yesterday morning in Hadan I was walking on one of these small streets, which has barely enough room for two lanes, but traffic does move on it in both directions. Well there was a vehicle behind me that just had to let me know of its presence with the loud sound of a horn. Well I thought, "What does this driver want from me?" Could it be for me to move faster, not hardly since usually I am well ahead of my Korean companions, or maybe this is someone I know. Therefore I turned and looked straight at the car, since the windows were so darkly tinted I could not get a good view of the face to tell if this was someone I knew. So I put both my hands on the hood and lean towards the windshield trying to get a better look. After realizing that the driver must be getting a better view of me than I was of him, and he did not get out to speak to me, I turned and proceeded on to where I was going. After about 10 paces I turned back to see that the vehicle had not moved far at all and was getting some directions from one of these parking attendants with a battery-powered baton. Next I saw the car turn into a garage which was right there. Now why could he have wanted me to move any faster?
HAHA! I love when people honk-especially when there are then guys ahead of you who are also not moving.
"You spew hateful diatribe based on race to support your own feelings of inadequacy and then when challenged you pull out the old "it was a joke:" argument. You're a weak little man. The problem is, you're full of hot air and you don't like to get called on it." "
Called on what? I have been here since 2003. I can remember many things form the news. How about my stats? Which are wrong? You say they are wrong but prove that. My OECD stats are dead on-right from the OECD website. "Hateful diatribe based on race"? Half of my family is Korean. I have lived here for 10 years. I like it here. Ignorant and absurd assumptions, annon. And as for my post being funny-I think it was. It was a joke and you should chill out.
There is always someone on here with nothing better to do talking tough and tying to look smarter than the next guy because they have nothing better to do. Pretty sad. Read the original post again and the subsequesnt ones. You are the only person arguing so I think that says something. And the fact this thread has legs like this is amazing. I cant wait until you read my next one, "The good, the bad and the ugly. My ten years in Korea." You will have a heart attack if you thought this was bad! Enjoy. From the weak man to annonymous.
Just a few stat for annon above who thinks I am full of hot air. He questioned my stats. Pulled these stats/articles of the web in 5 mintues. Korea has changed a bit but still, near the top-or bottom-of every category I said they were. Why you wanted to talk about this when I said I knew what i was talking about is beyond me-especially since my post is about driving in Korea. Anyway, for your reading pleasure.
Korean pedestrians' accident rates were the highest among Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) member countries, a local research institute said on Monday.According to the 2007 OECD International Road Traffic and Accident Database announced by Green City Research Institute, 5.28 per 100,000 Korean pedestrians died in traffic accidents in 2005, placing the country in first place.Korea also topped the category in 2004, with 6.0 pedestrians per 100,000.As for the number of deaths in traffic accidents per 10,000 cars, Korea took second place with 3.45 people, following Hungary with 3.79.Considering that the OECD member countries' average number of pedestrians' death in traffic accidents marked 1.58 per 100,000 and the number of accidental deaths per 10,000 cars marked 1.68, South Korea has still a long way to go to become an advanced country in terms of traffic safety.``These tragic accidents have highlighted the dangers pedestrians face on a daily basis and the need to be alert and always cross at signalized intersections. The government's more active and specific measures are required since pedestrians' traffic safety is vital regarding people's welfare,'' said Lim Sam-jin, a professor at Hanyang University and official at the Green City Research Institute.``In Europe, pedestrians are guaranteed priority rights in streets near residential areas. Also, car speed limits in such areas should be lowered to 20 to 30 kilometers per hour. Our government should launch a project for traffic calming, which is aimed at lowering car speed limits and car circulation near residential areas.''Indeed, the government showed the worst result in the sector of pedestrians' traffic accidents regarding its five-year plan to improve traffic safety from 2002 to 2006.The nation saw 2,457 deaths of pedestrians in 2005, about twice the government's original estimate of 1,274.As for the number of traffic deaths of those over 65 years of age per 100,000, South Korea topped OECD member countries with 38.8 in 2005. As for the corresponding number of children aged under 14, South Korea took fourth place with 3.1 in the same year.[email protected]
South Korea ranks poorly in yet another area measured by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.
The National Statistical Office (NSO) said Wednesday that an average of about 8.7 out of every 100,000 children aged under 15 lost their lives in 2005 in traffic accidents, drowning and other incidents. The top two were Mexico with 13.6 and the United States with 9.2. The average was 5.6.Traffic accidents accounted for 42.7 percent of the total, followed by drowning at 20 percent. Murder and suicides took up 8.7 percent and 5.3 percent, respectively. Boys accounted for 64 percent of the total.``The cases of child deaths have declined over the years thanks to better road safety and other social infrastructure. But many children here are still killed in car accidents and from other causes. The data also found that kids from low-income families are more likely to encounter various hazards,'' an NSO official said.
Other data from the OECD has shown South Korea has the highest suicide rate, its people work the most number of hours (are at work the most I should say), has the highest rate of new TB infections, has a private sector that spends the most on public education, has the largest public school class sizes, is first in elderly poverty, ranks last in health spending, leads in motor vehicle accidents, and leads in accident rates among pedestrians. South Korea, according to the OECD Factbook 2009, is the least happy, and in a category that could go both ways, has one of the lowest birthrates in the world.
Suicides per 100,000 people per year
Monday, June 27, 2011 GET REAL
Booming South Korean economy earns a slap from OECD for inadequate social spending
SEOUL — The image of modern South Korea as a rising, shining giant, spewing forth cars, computers, ships and chips for global consumption, comes in for a beating in a report by the Paris-based Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development.
While economists in the United States and Europe are accustomed to singing South Korea’s praises, the OECD begins its annual review of the country with the declaration, “Korea is confronting a serious challenge.”
How’s that, exactly? “It has to improve income equality in the context of a severe demographic transition” — that of “transition from one of the youngest populations in the OECD at present to the second oldest by 2050.” That attenuated process, the report warned, “may boost the need for public spending and slow economic growth”.
But the problem goes much deeper than that, according to the report. “Sustained rapid growth during the first decade of the 21st century has been accompanied by a marked rise in income inequality,” it noted. “Underlying social problems were further exacerbated by the 2008 global economic and financial crisis.”
Even “as Korea integrates into the global economy, said the OECD study, “it faces many of the same forces that have led to rising inequality in other OECD countries. In the Korean case, however, the problem is actually worse than in most member states.
“First, its level of social spending is among the lowest in the OECD area,” said the report. “Second, the impact of its tax and transfer systems on income distribution and poverty is among the weakest. Third, Korea’s dualistic labour market is highly segmented between regular and non-regular workers, leading to wide inequality in wage income.”
Korea Scores Poorly on OECD Quality-of-Life Index July 3rd, 2012 Chosunilbo
Koreans work on average 2,193 hours a year, and only 62 percent of people are satisfied with their lives. Korea ranks 24th in terms of the quality of life and well-being among 34 OECD member states plus Brazil and China, according to a index published by the OECD.The OECD released the "Better Life Index" on Tuesday based on 11 topics it identified as essential for "material living conditions and quality of life." They are housing, income, jobs, community, education, environment, governance, health, life satisfaction, safety, and work-life balance.
Who cares about Koreans bad driving . They dont care so let them kill and handicapp each other .How would you feel if some Korean wanted to ban guns in the USA . We have the 5th amendment . The right to bear arms . In Korea the right to bear arms is their car . The car is the Koreans weapon . I have seen many people killed by the car on tv dramas . And on the streets with my eyes in Korea .
There is always a critic. I think annon-you want argue numbers and OECD stats. You talk about being able to take care of yourself here better but then how did Korea rank dead last in quality of living a few years ago? And yes, they did rank at the bottom for social spending-which leads directly to the quality of life of all people. The two go hand in hand. Also number on is suicides, car accidents... This has nothing to do people being stupid, but it does say something about life here.
And the jokes are all over. Maybe you dont drive and dont get it-who knows. But with over 3000 reads and 100 posts-which are both way more than the MBC thing-I think my fun look into driving has been taken the right way. It was meant in fun and people liked it.
As for people who honk, that makes me laugh. It is especially funny when there are also 10 cars in front of you.
And as for caring about driving here-I dont. They suck, partly because, as I already stated, they are a first generation driving country, but I still love the anything goes thing. It is annoying at times but not worrying about what others will think has it good points as well.
I usually only drive outside of Busan in Jeju , Namhae , Kojaydo , Kimhae , Yangsan , and Ulsan . I have heard from Korean friends Busan drivers are the worst in Korea . What percent of drivers in Busan would you say are bad , reckless , and dangerous drivers . ?
As far as the suicide rate its a real black eye and shame on Korean society . I am not an expert but I think the best way to deal with this is to advice people to look at your problems in a long term not in the short term . .Whether the problem is breaking up with a partner , or just a bad result on an exam .
Life is long and dont try to judge a book until all the pages are read .
Korea is not alone in bad mental health care . Many counties fail on this point . Many of the homeless in USA and Canada are suffering from mental illness .
Can you name a spoken for this cause . I can just think of one . Metta World Peace the former Ron Artest LA Laker NBA player .
As far as Korea how about dont show people jumping of a buliding . Better show a person on a tv drama getting some help and feeling and getting better . Tv stations should try to be responsible for the stuff they put on tv and try to make good role models for everyone .
Robert, you are right when talking about problems in other countries. I only posted the last few because some "annonymous" person said I was making up stories/stats and called me weak and racist I believe. Whatever! The sad thing is, my original post was in fun. Judging by only one person wants to argue with me over stats, shows to me anyway people got that. And people liked it because they could relate to what I was saying about bad drivers here. Just by reading the post above that has the stats, driving here is a problem.
As for the percentage of drivers that are bad-it is actually small. The problem is that there are just so many cars in a small area so it makes things look worse. And by bad I mean like a lady yesterday who almost came to a stop in a 60 zone to move into the left lane only 100 meters later to do the same again and move back. She was on the phone. I drive with thousands of cars everyday and while everytime to and from work I come across someone who does not care about other drivers (usually more han 1 to be honest), or is bad, most are okay.
As for suicide, it is a fact that countries that go through the process of becoming developed also see a rise in suicide. Korea is off the charts now for other reasons as well but the level will come down once the younger generation starts to have kids and so on. There is less reason to push your kids so hard when you have money. The push is getting it. You will see, the rates will be high for awhile but come down in 10+ years or so.
As for TV being more responsible, I think not. Suicide numbers going down is more about parenting and having opportunities. The reality is, people lack opportunities here. Years ago a study was done asking university students if they would rather have American or Korean citizenship and over half of them said American. They love being Korean but they also want to have a good life. To be honest, I am not sure being in the US is any better but this is what the study said.
Anyway, I love reading about driving experiences here. Me, I am on my way out now. Odds are 1-1 that I yell at someone. Oh, what a joy...hahaha. Happy and safe motoring people. And remember, a red light is just a suggestion.
John your topic has staying power . Most topics last just a few days . It even beat the mbc proganda story . Its still on top.I tip my cap to you .
As for USA life being so good . It depends on someones skill set .But that is not a slam
dunk . And nowadays it depends on some luck too .
Most of my friends are staying afloat but they have to work longer and harder to have less then they did before . One friend is doing fine but he was a junk bond salesman in the 80s and 90s and was banned from working that field but he made enough not to work again .
My friend doing the best made his money as a cowboy in Iraq . I mean he drove a truck and was a contractor . So he got the capital to open his company .
Yes i heard young Koreans have hard time to find a job in Korea .But some Korean businessmen told me they cant find a good worker since young workers dont want to work hard and get dirty .Also they have no real job experience in their major of study or job they want .
Bottom line in most countries its harder for people then 10 years ago . I have heard USA is 5 to 10 years from full recovery . USA life is the same as everywhere if you have a nice job its a nice place to live . Trick is to find that nice job .
Thanks. My guess is the annon above if someone who wrote something previoulsy that was not well received. What he said about my post is simliar to what I said about theirs. Who knows, though. That said, driving was the same as always today. People sticking up their hands to say sorry, as they blatantly coast through an obvious red light. Saw a fire truck waiting for a parked car to move so it could get to the hydrant. I watched...
And again, this is for annon above who questions my stats and tried to talk smack without having a clue of what he was talking about. I guess this is why people choose to be annonymous.
Spin these facts annon! You talk about economic spending and changing how things look-please! Why argue about facts regarding Korea? They are just facts. They dont belong to me. They dont make me happy. They just are. I thought your attack on me was quite interesting. I thought it must be Crudler-who likes quoting me and trying to make me look wrong-or the author of the 13 bad things in Asia. I commented how I thought it was a little insensitive and not funny and that is what was said about me above so... Anyway, time to chill out and go for a drive.
It's not really a driving issue but more a cultural issue regarding space and perceived (or unperceived) public responsibilities. I don't know if it's possible to change habits in driving when the habit is deeply ingrained into the national consciousness.
Doesn't this just say it all.
Their is not public responsibility, watch people throw trash on the street, park anywhere, sidewalk, in front of a driveway. But life is to short to get to bent about this stuff... I tell my friends in the car when they see something that is a bit shocking, things like oh that happens all of the time, or you should have seen when this... it is all so common to watch people do strange thoughtless things behind the wheel.
I have to admit though, I still laugh out loud regularly
Just move one I guess.
One should just always expect that someone will not follow the rules.
Wait a little longer after the light has turned green, as some fool from the other side will always jump the red light.
Last night had some one in a car jump the red and cut me off as I entered the intersection when it was green for me. Not only did the car jump the red but it also didn't have any lights on, although it was already about 10pm.
You really need to be safe. You always need to know what is going on around you and watch for people sneaking out from side streets as you know they are just going to pop out. People jsut do whatever-in every aspect of life. The post above wit hte quote says it all. Ask your students if Korea is nationalistic or individualistic and most will say nationalistic. But if you ask if they tell people not to throw garbage on teh ground they will say no because "who are they to say anything". People just do whatever here. On the streets, in homes, in restaurants and grocery stores. It does not end. Oh well, that is Korea. Be safe people.
The best way to deal with this problem is to record the dangerous and rude driving of people in Korea and post it on some websites . The Koreans need to be clowned and made a fool of for their dangerous and murderous driving (killing) behind the wheel . Perhaps if the world can see Korean driving they can be shamed into being human beings and drive and have concern for fellow humans .Perhaps Koreans are some Aliens so they dont care if they murder or handicap babies , children , other people , or old people . Just my thoughts from a caring human being in Busan on the planed earth .
I think this thread has gone one because people can relate to having to deal with the drivers here whether they drive themselves, they are in a taxi or even just walking. Heck, you can get hit by a motorcycle here walking on the sidewalk. But underneath that, I think because Koreans generally think they are the second coming of sliced bread, people want to try and stuff Korean's egos back into their heads. You know, princess disease and so on.
Now, we all know people here do whatever they want regardless of what others think. The other day I looked out my window and saw someone playing soccer in their living room-it was 2 in the morning. How loud would that be here? I came out and someone was parked behind me. I phoned and no answer. Finally the guy came and said I should have pushed his car out of the way. Buddy, there are 3 levels or parking. You are that lazy you block me in and then expect me to know to try and push your car out of the way? Everyone could go on and on about this and I think this leads some to being, maybe not angry, but surely frustrated, as it is just so stupid here sometimes. And I say stupid with regards to what we in the West thinks is right. It is hard to argue against thinking about others is bad but there is not need to get ethnocentric here.
Anyway, that is just my take on Korea. I could be wrong but looking at how people drive and how they act in restaurants, when walking, in the grocery stores and so on you do see similar behaviour; and that is a callous disregard for others. Cheers.
In a twist of irony, I was at the baseball stadium the other day and cars parked on the street were being towed. If you have ever been there during a game you would know there is no parking there. Everyone is double parked all around the stadium. I could not believe the tow truck people would target people at a game. Korean logic strikes again.
Korean drivers need to have common sense wen driving, everytime your driving next to them you should be more careful. They need to stop were their "head cover up" ( the black syn shades they use to block the sun).... gezzz they look like a horse, that' s why they cant see the car next to them. Also they need to practice more when yielding their car! Hays... Hope our DMV would give them a harder and more through eduaction when it comes to driving...
Actual black box footage from Korean road accidents. They don't need any narration. Watch these if you want to see what is going on in the heads of the average drivers here.
Star date, Thursday October 26, 2017.
Status report: Nothing has changed.
I've been driving here since 2001. It has changed. It's still a bit hairy. But, it is way, way better than back on 2001.I drive half an hour across Busan by scooter every day in rush hour and then home. I find it relaxing. I enjoy driving in Korea.
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