Does anybody know the situation if  a Hagwon shuts down, are there any regulations regarding payment of the remaining months in the contract ie have 6 month done and have 6 months left.

Info would be much appreciated

 You can't get pay for work

 You can't get pay for work you haven't done. In this situation a person would be lucky to get his/her last pay. You could file a grievence with the labor board, perhaps if they owe you flight money or ?.

Also, I would go down to the pension office and inquire if they actually paid into it or not. That would be owed to you as well.

closing school

Sorry bro but I think you are screwd.  You are not entitled to your bonus either. Even if this happened month 10 you could do nothing about that. There is nothing you can do. You are entitled to your last pay, however. I believe that is the law. So if they do owe you money, you could ask for it and if not, file a grevience at the labor board. The problem with this though is you are talking a long time in court-to maybe get some money. A bankruptcy court could pass that along to you but this could take 2 years. Best bet is to just move on-especially if they owe you nothing.

You should ask for a release letter, though, so you can find another job; or get your visa tansfered to another school. This would save you a few headaches. This is the best option.  I used to be really up on the law here. I had a good friend here who was a lawyer and he told me many things but this was a couple of years ago. Perhaps things have changed. Good luck!

I think I know the same

I think I know the same person you are speaking of and he had to give up the game. He had a heart of gold but he was getting 20 calls a day of the same thing; no pay. What do I do?  He couldn't spend anymore time giving advice for free and when he did go to a user-pay system people didn't call.

Do not go to ATEK, they have

Do not go to ATEK, they have no authority to help you  and cannot represent you or anything else. All they can do is tell you where to go, which is what anyone who has been here long enough can do.

Contracts do not equal guaranteed money. This is not professional sports where eployees get outrageous sums for doing nothing. If the hagwon goes out of business you are out of luck but that is the way it goes for any business in any country of the world.

All you can do is ask for a release letter and hope that they pay yo something.

What's your problem, "notopri"?

What's with your continual trash talking of ATEK?  In fact, everything you post is negative and awful.  You've turned into King Troll around here, haven't you?

Hey OP, don't listen to this clown.  ATEK can help you, even if nothing more than they can offer you advice, support, and steer you in the right direction.

Hey notopri, I'll refrain from ripping you new one you so manifestly deserve since "personal attacks" are not allowed on this here forum.  But reading your posts is like reading pus-filled bile.


The reality is ATEK is useless. The only avenue for us to take is to the labor board and that is it. They will tell you what you can do and in fact they do do what they can to help but lawyers and so on-geeze, forget about that. Even if you win a court case in Korea, the defendant does not even have to pay you-they pay a fine to the court and that is it. Those trying to think they are important starting foreign rights groups are just doing that, trying to look important. If things do not change for the better for Korean workers, do you really think the government is going to care about such a small minority of workers? People give good advice on here-many with years of experience, yet some just do not to wise up to the fact they are trying to help and instead of saying thanks, say you are being negative. News flash, it is pretty negative here when it comes to laws protecing workers. Build a bridge and get over it.

probably not what u want to

probably not what u want to hear but when a business legally shuts down operation, they have no obligation to pay u anything.  if ur lucky and u have decent employers, u'd get ur last pay and a referral letter.  i've had friends in the past who've had things like this happen and some just received pay for their final month of work, and found another job.  others didn't get anything.  i'd say just be happy if u can get that final pay and just move on.

Ignoring the abusive poster,

Ignoring the abusive poster, there is little you can do, businesses go bankrupt all over the world and it is not a scam to cheat you out of money. What a lot of NETs in this country forget is that it is not cheap to run a hagwon and if the expenses outnumber the receipts there is little choice for the owner.

As is common for anywhere, you do not get paid for not working. 

I'm the president of ATEK. 

I'm the president of ATEK.  I live in Busan. I don't normally weigh in on individual blogs, but I feel I should step in and be a voice for our association.  I have facts, figures, and details at my disposal, and I have worked personally on dozens of employment & labor cases.  I have about a 80% success rate which ain't bad for not being an attorney.

First of all, it's absolutely untrue that all ATEK can do is refer people to other places.  We can not provide legal advice, but there are many other actions besides referring teachers to the Migrant Labor Board.  In fact, that's the last resort!

What is true is that we do collect contacts for all other resources available in Korea and when we can't solve an issue or if there are emergency or other needs, we work together with those providers.

The most useful thing I have done with ATEK to help teachers is provide mediation.  We are becoming VERY experienced with this in a way that simply being part of the "old gaurd" does not qualify one to do.  We have a training manual for our 'labor' officers which explains how to work with all parites involved.

Recently we have gotten teachers (all over Korea but especially in Busan) severence pay, lost wages, airfare, release letters, retroactive medical insurance, and we've even helped teachers from being deported.

We do have legal resources at our disposal (legal assurance and know-how on forming unions).

I have even come out of mediations with hagwon owners thanking me, so I know that what we do works.

For those of you looking for answers, the difference between an ATEK officer and someone who has just 'been here a long time' is that we actively seek solutions and check the laws directly rather than relying on hear-say and conjecture.  We have been in the trenches.  Furthermore, the difference is that rather than complaining we do something about issues teachers face and support any individual or group that feels the same (rather than slamming one like ours for trying).

My advice to the naysayers is to join us, become an officer, get more information, and put your experience to good use rather than steering newbies away from us when we can truly help them and band together for common causes.

In Solidarity,

Greg Dolezal

answer the question

BANGORBOYCV asked the question in April 2009 and only one of you actually answered his question. It's over a year later. Most of you are riding this dead horse to crank out opinions and brag. Here's my answer. When any business closes or any job ends prematurely, employees can claim earnings for the period of employment (and that may or may not include a month of severance pay) according to what the law requires. Courts may or may not be able to settle other matters regarding contractual arrangements, which depends on the contracts and the employees' status. However, it is unlikely that you will get back airfare costs or bonuses. Unfair dismissals may be disputed and compensation paid. Payment of owed funds is up to the employer and according to its capacity and will, whatever the employee's rights are and whatever legal decisions order.

Yeah, when I was Chair of Busan ATEK until about April this year, I and other officers, as well as the Busan Human Rights Counseling Center, were quite busy answering inquiries and assisting teachers with employment claims and negotiations.
[manager note: comments regarding internal organization conflict removed]

Anyway, FREED is kept quite busy with labour claims and information sharing nowadays. Yeah, what we can correct through labour claims, information sharing and negotiations is quite limited, which is why we need to take basic political positions revolving around human rights (including civil, labour, political) and persist in defending them. Meanwhile, yeah, it is best if teachers become better informed and find, share and use info themselves to help themselves and each other. Agreed.

I think for someone who isn't

I think for someone who isn't on an F visa your organization could probably do a lot of good for foreign teachers. The only reason I say other wise for the F is because commonly, not all cases but in my tenure here F people have been in country somewhat longer than Es, know their way around, have a decent understanding of Korean and rely more on their spouse to handle such things. Also I'd say 90% of F visa English teachers(not F holders as 90% of those are East-Asian mail order brides. We are actually a small percentage of total F visa holders) do not work in the hogwan industry but either in the public school system, private schools or college/university; public or private. Bottom line; you don't have to beg for pay owed to you.

It would have been nice in 1995 to have ATEK around that's for sure. In those days, there was no koreabridge, labor board would have laughed at you upon entering, no-one could help back then. I think I told the same story through translation 15times to people i thought could help me but who couldn't. 

Good luck to you and the organization  


It is illegal for foreigners to form unions here. Paul Robertson, a good friend of mine and person who did law work here for foreigners told me as much. Maybe things have changed but I doubt it.

The bottom line is the labor board does more than you. I have used them twice and received my money both times. You have no authority here. The reality is, while you heart may be in the right place, you have no real power here to do anything more than any individual can do, and less than the labor board has. I would go there first everytime but that is just me.

And to say 'I am the president of atek' smells of arrogance. I would have been impressed if you merely said you did work for them and had some success. Less pretentious! Just my opinion. Anyway, do what you do and good luck. If you help people great on you but I do not think it atek the answer to peoples problems here.

"You may want to seem

"You may want to seem important but I could just as easily help people get there money as you."

But the question Paul is do you?

I never got from ATEK that they claim to be doing something amazing or something that other long time residents couldn't do.  What I got is that they are concentrating their resources in one place, building networks of contacts, advertising and making themselves easily contactable and most importantly actually having the will to go out there and do it.

I say good on them.

 First of all, Paul, ATEK

 First of all, Paul, ATEK isn't a union.  They make that very clear.  Second, who is the arrogant one here? He's telling you that he's the president of ATEK because he IS.  Several people - including yourself - are basically disparaging his organization for no good reason and he wishes to clear up any misconceptions.  As ATEK's president he's the one to do that, isn't he?


Man, some of you folks are unreal.  What's your beef with ATEK?  What harm do they do?  They are here as a resource and an intermediary.  This is especially valuable to newbies with problems, who may not be able to navigate themselves around with the dexterity of some of you bitter old veterans.

And your claim that "I could just as easily help people" is a red herring.  It's ridiculous, Paul.  It's does nothing for your argument at all.  

You guys that hate ATEK just want to shoot them down for shooting-them-down's sake.  Paul says things like, "You may want to seem important...."  Really, Paul?  Is that why people got together to make an organization to advance the interests of ESL teachers?  Just to "seem important."

And you actually earned a college degree?  I'm really speechless here.


I never said atek was a union. I was commenting on what he said about forming unions. Read the post!

In defence, I did say I am not sure exactly how atek works. Also, I said  if you can help people good on you. I also said, I do not think they are needed.  This is from my own experience being here. Next, the idea of someone saying i am the prez to me comes of as pretentious.  Just my opinion. And finally, at least I put myself out there. I do not hide behind a fake name. It is so easy to opinionated when you call yourself some silly name. I have nothing to hide! I stand behind my opinions about atek. Who really cares?

I just shared my opinion.  If this makes you angry and so on, then all I can say is why does my opinion matter so much to you? You defend it-okay! You are speechless and you wonder if I have a degree??? Wow. Kind of juvenile dont you think? Why people jump to such idiotic positions makes it impossible to even have a conversation with them. I just do not see the point to atek. So what? I am not the only one. Cheers!

Re: union

I'm not hiding behind a fake name.  This is Chris Tharp.  You know me.  It's the internet and I have a couple of handles.

Yeah, you just "shared your opinion" and my opinion of your opinion is that it is petty, snarky and uninformed.  I could use worse words here but I have to tread carefully so as to pass moderator muster.

Your opinion itself doesn't matter to me.  The fact that you voice it so loudly and ignorantly does.  Here's the real deal: You hate ATEK because you think that they think they are better than you.  End of.  Classic inferiority complex.  You have no real practical problems with them.  You just want to drag 'em down, because it chews you up to see other foreigners succeed.

Re: union

Actually, it is completely legal to form unions.

ATEK is not a union, however we can help teachers set up workplace unions by providing organizational advice and connecting teachers with the proper legal consultants.  ATEK members in Incheon formed a union in November.  It went to court and we won.  End of story.

There is a podcast on this very subject right here on Koreabridge.  You should check it out.

RE: helping F Visa holders

I have an F visa and so do many of our members and some of our officers.  Being here for a long time probably does mean they (F visa holders) will face different issues.  But, that doesn't mean ATEK can't be a good resource.  Granted, these folks have more information than an E who is fresh off the boat and may feel that he or she can handle it alone.  That could be true sometimes, but there is still an advantage to having someone write or speak on behalf of another.

Getting letters or phone calls from ATEK shows the employer or government agency that the teacher has an ally who is familiar with the policies and that will press the issues.  Sometimes that is jsut enough leverage to make a difference.

I would like to have more F's in leadership because I think we are the backbone of the teaching community because of our experience, stability, knowledge, connection to the people, and longevity.

RE: advice from ATEK

The difference between ATEK and someone who has just been here a long time is that we research the facts and find references to back them up.  We have legal counsel and are building relationships with employers, recruiters, and government agencies.

Another difference is that when a teacher has a problem ATEK is responsive and ready to help.  Where are these 'longtimers' when teachers actually need help?  They don't seem so eager to step up on behalf of total strangers.

If a 'longtimer' wants to be helpful then join the association and help with the dozens of cases we get every month.  This help would be most welcome and then everyone benefits.  The association gets stronger and more experienced and teachers are served.

Furthermore, ATEK is learning from its experiences.  We now have a manual for our Employment & Legal Officers that includes case studies, record keeping, and communications strategies for every common situation that arises.  There is a pattern and SOPs and protocals are being applied to them.  Over time this body of knowledge will increase and each generation of officers will have increasingly more tools at their disposal.

RE: History

There have been some bumps in the road getting to this point.  The 'unsavory' characters are gone now either by their own hand or by ours.  Any organization that is volunteer-based has to cope with personalities and internal struggle at the start.  The process of selecting leaders is improved, the communications flow is improved, members are more empowered, and the agenda is more focused and less polemical.

If we are judged by who we were 1.5 years ago then I would say some of these criticisms are valid.  but, the fact is that we have evolved and adapted to fit the demand and political climate.  We have changed but the naysayers are the same.

RE: Legal Status

ATEK is not a politcal group.  Belonging is insufficient for deportation or dismissal.  If you look at what we've been doing for the last 12 months, I dare anyone to find an example of advocacy or politcal activism.  I know you won't find it because I have made sure that it didn't happen.  The real dead horse is that the detractors are still upset about the ECFA Campaign which is ancient history.  I'm glad that as an adult I'm judged for my actions, not for what I said or thought in highschool.  Allow us to move on.

Additionally, we are pursuing NGO status which will provide limited liability to all of our members and officers, fundraising, and many other advantages.  The detractors are going to find themselves on the wrong side of history.

In Solidarity,


ATEK President


The Association for Teacher of English (ATEK) - FAQ

What is ATEK?

The Association for Teachers of English in Korea (ATEK) is an all-volunteer national support and information-sharing network for professional English teachers.  Our stated mission is to improve the lives of teachers through online and human resources by developing partnerships with government offices, recruiters, employers, and other organizations that aid teachers.   To learn more:

Is ATEK a political advocacy group?

ATEK is not a union and it is not a political advocacy group.  Although ATEK has been outspoken in the past on some important issues facing teachers, our primary focus is now on providing basic services and establishing a reputation as respected voice for teachers through consultancy rather than through polemical media campaigns.  Cultivating relationships through trust and by adhering to cultural standards in communication is the best way to demonstrate that we are productive members of the community who deserve to be heard.

What does ATEK do?

We help our members adapt to life in Korea by providing useful resources such as The English Teacher’s Guide to Korea (available for free at ), and officers who help with emergency needs, legal and immigration issues, mediating with employers, intercultural communications, volunteering in the community, social networking, and professional standards.  We have been invited by the Korean government to advise its Branding Commission, act as a consultant to the Seoul Metro Police, and give suggestions to the Prime Minister’s Office about how to improve the immigration process.  We have a ‘Legal Assurance Program’ through a prominent labor law firm that is tailored to the needs of ATEK members.  We are working on a similar program for help with immigration problems.

Is ATEK legal?

We have a Business Development Planning Committee that is researching the requirements for limited liability status and the ability to collect money, hire administrative staff, and have offices.  The most likely outcome is that ATEK will become a registered NGO.  In the meantime, organizing online and meeting to discuss issues that affect teachers is perfectly legal.  We can legally engage in fundraising up to 10 Million KRW per year for charitable causes like helping a teacher with medical bills.  Employers cannot prevent teachers from associating and many employers are becoming members!

Who are ATEK’s members?

Anyone (even non-teachers) can become an Associate Member by signing up at , including hagwon directors, principals, journalists, people not living in Korea, and any person interested in receiving our newsletter or joining our forums.  It’s free to join and membership is confidential.


General Membership is reserved for those who legally reside and teach in Korea using English as the medium.  GMs are the driving force of the association because they can vote, hold office, and are the ultimate deciders both locally and nationally.  To become a voting member:


ATEK’s volunteers are its Officers.  Any General Member can become an officer if elected by the voting members of his or her Provincial or Metropolitan Association (PMA).  Serving in a local position places every officer on a corresponding national committee with the chair serving on the National Council.  The President is chosen by the national electorate.  To learn more about the various roles:

Re: unions

People should be aware of the point you make that membership in this association isn't a valid reason for termination if that does happen. That is a  real slippery slope as Koreans never give you the truthful real reason of why a person was let go.

They will get rid of you because of your association and chalk it up as 'not good teacha', many parents and students complaining, class not funny!'  and you could be the top dog at the place. It makes little difference, like I said the real reason for getting the axe is known fully to everyone but it's all ways disguised as the above. 

I wish you guys the best and take care but I can pretty much assure you what I wrote above will happen exactly to at least one or more of your members.


Agreed Paul. People on here have no idea on how to debate ideas-they just attack. I agree about ATEK as well. In a country where anything goes pretty much, an organization with no legal rights to do anything to truly help-like make the system change which is where all problems lie in Korea-for foreigners and Koreans, there is no point to it. Move on I would suggest and don't worry about defending opinions on here as the bashing  never ends; nor do the ridiculous comments like do you even have a degree. Just plain dumb and useless.

And I would say to meat, people start things usually to make money. If you think people start insurance companies to 'help others' then wow, society has surely done a number on your brain. Pharmecutical companies really loving helping others-while turning billions in profits-from drugs that kill but get approved because of the money invloved. And this could go on and on. Use the labor board people! Done!!!

Re: Compensation

"The reality is ATEK is useless."

I agree with that as anything it does has no legal standing and it is not recognized by the government, Nothing it does has any impact and it needs to mind its own business. The system is fine the way it is and if people have problems with it then maybe Korea is not the place for them. It is better that they leave than ruin things for everyone else.

:"First of all, Paul, ATEK isn't a union. "

That remains to be seen. If they are doing everything described in that president's post (and I know he is the president but anyone getting elected by 25 votes cast, that is a total of votes cast should not be bragging {though I am sure ATEK people will dispute that figure}) then they are acting like a union. And if it walks like a duck...

ATEK just needs to go away as they are redundant and not are not doing what anyone else can do. Old timers can be of more help than they can and not get the NET in trouble it is a very fine line here

"I just shared my opinion.  If this makes you angry and so on, then all I can say is why does my opinion matter so much to you? You defend it-okay! You are speechless and you wonder if I have a degree??? Wow. Kind of juvenile dont you think? Why people jump to such idiotic positions makes it impossible to even have a conversation with them"

I run into the same attitudes. People assume first then ask questions later after the damage has been done.

People really do not need anyone to negotiate for them and it is not always wise to throw good money after bad. Sometimes it is just better to cut one's losses and move on because how you react to the situation can make things worse for the NET replacing you. You need to think about others and not be selfish. What a lot of people do not realize is that they are being treated in ways they do not like simply because the foreigners before them ruined everything.

Show a little understanding towards your bosses and try to repair the damnage done instead of making it worse. Unfortunately, ATEK does the latter.


Re: Compensation

Man oh man you make me slap my forehead. 

I'm sure that you indeed run into the same attitudes as Paul.  You sound like a truckload of fun "notopri."  I bet you got buddies lining up around the block to witness your free flowing and fun banter.  

The reason you run into "the same attitudes" is because you are a anal retentive, humorless hater.

And it's really disingenuous of you slap around ATEK for exacerbating (look it up)  bad relations between teachers and bosses when, if you read Gregory's response at all, you would see the ATEK's greatest successes have been in employee-employer MEDIATION, which is just the opposite of your pathetic last paragraph.

And you say that them being a labor union "remains to be seen."  What remains to be seen?  Picket lines?  Strikes?  You sound like birther morons who say that Obama's religion remains to be seen.  You are just making stuff up.

And what if they were a union?  I'd join.  Labor unions fought for and won many of the rights that you enjoy today.

This is my last one because you are obviously a small-minded, bitter, intransigent boob.

PS:  I am not a member of ATEK.  I have absolutely no personal stake in defending them.  I just have zero time for the mongo peanut gallery that slingshots on this here board.

Time for coffee.

Re: Compensation

Read the following link

Anyone who defends ATEk is out of their minds and only looking to cause trouble for those who do not need nor want that group inserting their noses where it does not belong. For the most part, koreans have it right and the westerner needs to learn a few things before ruining things here for everyone. EPIK is already importing teachers from India and guess who pushed the Koreans in that direction?  The complaining troublemaking western NETs.

Both ATEK and Freed should do the NEt a favor and disband and quietly go away.

Re: Compensation

That thread is from 2008 when ATEK was just forming. The ATEK of today is a quite different entity.

All of the anti-ATEKers here say that ATEK isn't doing anything/giving advice that any longtimer can give. The issue is, though, that a newbie being screwed by his hagwon generally has no access to a longtimer to give them that good advice and going to the forums you usually end up with 20 different and often opposing pieces of advice. At the very least, ATEK has the resources, links and facts and they give consistent advice to people in trouble. They're also accessible to the newbies in a way the all-knowing longtimers aren't.

I've been here almost 10 years and have given 'good' advice to lots of newbies in trouble, but these conversations usually happen in a bar, because that's where newbies find longtimers. What makes me credible? My word? My 10 years here?

My advice now to the newbies is contact ATEK. They give the exact same advice I give, but have the credibility of being an organization to back them up.

Re: Compensation

I disagree with the above poster. Anyone contacting ATEk is asking for trouble as their 'resources', 'links' and 'facts', can be found anywhere and all one has to do is do a little research. I am not going to say any more on the topic except that newbies and people, do yourselves a favor and avoid both ATEK and FREED, both organizations have no legal recognition, and no Korean employer or organization has to give them the time of day or listen to them.

Things here run by Korean law, Korean ways and the Korean language, western ways and ideas don't fly here. You would be better served if you did your own negotiations and treated the Korean people right and do not stoop to the level of ATEK and FREED.

I have been involved with this country and its people for over 40 years and both ATEK and FReed along with thepeople involved supporting them are wrong.

Re: Compensation

You may well have been involved with Korea for 40 years but you are not presenting a cogent argument here. Are you saying an organization set up to provide support to teachers is wrong simply because one should support oneself or if unable to do so, suffer the consequences? That doesn't make much sense. Why would you be opposed to an organization that provides support and mediation?
I can only speculate that you have an undeclared vested interest or perhaps a grudge or you think "Korea/Koreans" are perfect or...I don't know. As I said, you don't really make sense to me.
If ATEK are professional and culturally sensitive, but strong enough to stand up to unfair practices, then I say good luck to them.

To any newbie, re-read BusanMum's comment - it's sensible advice.

Re: Compensation

Anyone contacting ATEk is asking for trouble as their 'resources', 'links' and 'facts', can be found anywhere and all one has to do is do a little research.

Why bother doing the research when it's already been done for you by ATEK? Also, my experience has shown that most people who have problems have the same problems, (late pay, no pay, etc.) so by now, ATEK people should be pros at dealing with those situations. And no one has said that an ATEK representative absolutely needs to become personally involved in every case. They offer, first, advice. Then they go from there. If mediation is required, then they mediate, etc. 

both organizations(ATEK and FREED) have no legal recognition, and no Korean employer or organization has to give them the time of day or listen to them.

Why is legal recognition necessary to give solid advice and help to people in need? The point is that if it goes so far as to become a legal issue, ATEK can help the teacher get proper representation when necessary. Why is that a bad thing?

I don't understand you logic.

Re: Compensation

"Why bother doing the research when it's already been done for you by ATEK"

I wasn't going to come back in here but this statement provides all the evidence one needs to support their anti-ATEK stance. Last I looked that organization was/is 1. not infallible; 2. filled with unsavory characters; 3. biased and have their own agenda; 4. not held accountable; 5. can manipulate newbies to fit their agenda

Do you want me to continue? No one is smart if they blindly follow the advice of someone they do not know. In fact if they blindly follow anyone then they deserve the trouble the get. People forget that if you listen to ATEK or FREED it is not the organization's butt that will be in trouble it is yours when laws are broken or the foreigner getting the advice does something they should not. ATEK people will ot be fired, ATEK people will not be deported or sent home, or lose their apartments etc.

People need to grab a brain and think things through before jumping on either organizations bandwagon or asking them for help. You need to educate yourselves, not rely on redundant organizations who do not have your best interests at heart, they have their own. There are plenty of sites on the internet where newbies can get quality information and they can also turn to their own embassies for help to find the right sources they need. There is also an organization is Seoul that helps foreigners.

The list is endless and one does not have to be a member of those places to get the information the need. A word of caution, E-2 visa holders are very restricted in what they can and cannot do and the best place to get that list and permission is from Korean immigration as they are the ones who will be waving good-bye to you (not ATEK) when you violate your visa.

Be wise people ATEK and FREED are nothing but troublemakers and need to be avoided. Learn your limitations and theirs by independently doing your own research because neither of those two organizations speak for the Korean government or its agencies and tey do not make the laws of this land.

The best thing to do if you do not lke it here is follow your contract, finish it and then leave the country because there are others who can be hurt by your actions.

Dear Chris

Oh, Chris. You sound so angry. What can one say to someone who can not accept another's opinion? I will try this;

As for being ignorant-I do not think so. I think having been here for 7 years makes me quite wise to what works and what does not. You like them-okay. I do not-so what. Start being funny again because you just sound angry-although your pro-atek, anti-Paul posts did make me laugh! I can not imagine what you would have to say about some of these other posts if you are flipping out on me because of 

I will not reply anymore to this thread as it is a waste of time bantering back and forth with people who can only see black and white. I have nothing bad to say because you like atek even though I disagree with you but you calling me ignorant and so on is just ridiculous-and sorry-even ignorant! Say what you will about me as I do not care. Everyone has opinions-I just will not degrade people for them. I shall respect we have different views on this and goodbye atek chatter! Cheers funny guy!


Be more concerned with your character than your reputation as your character is who you truly are while your reputation is merely what others say you are!