Women in Korea #2

Women in Korea #2
May 9, 2010

Participants: Alex Karpen, Mindy Sisco, & Valerie Schmitt
Topics: Discussing Sexuality in the Classroom & Korea's Aegyo (Cutie Pie) Syndrome

Post-show audio and video here

Chat Log Below

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Women in Korea #2 Chat Log

20:01:10 Alex -> Where are you from Lauren? 20:01:51 lauren -> i'm in seoul. I'm a SMOE english teacher (that's how i know valerie) 20:01:57 Alex -> Cool 20:02:02 Alex -> I'm Epik! 20:02:11 lauren -> i'm heading to busan for buddha's bday 20:02:28 Alex -> Nice! I love Busan 20:03:47 val -> Busan does, in fact, rock ^^ 20:06:53 JL -> we will get going shortly 20:21:08 Alex -> Anneth, where art thou??? 20:09:21 Alex -> Hi Angela 20:09:21 lauren -> my internet probably can't handle it right no 20:09:22 lauren -> w 20:09:24 angela -> VALERIE!!!!!! 20:09:49 angela -> indeed 20:10:06 angela -> yes, you have 20:10:20 lauren -> woo aussie! lol 20:11:43 angela -> I was part of a group for International women in Korea in my first year. we started a blog www.champerslatter.blogspot.com I was going to delete it, since all the members have left Korea, but if you guys want to continue it, that would be cool 20:11:52 Alex -> Cool 20:12:06 angela -> sorry champerslatte.blogspot.com 20:14:07 angela -> too long, val, too [email protected] 20:14:23 angela -> yep, Mother's Day here, too 20:14:57 val -> yay 20:14:57 lauren -> yeah australia has mother's day atm, had to skype my mum 20:16:19 val -> http://koreabridge.net/discussion/homosexuality-taught-americans-private... 20:17:21 angela -> yeah, what age were the kids? did the kids bring up the subject? 20:17:47 angela -> teachers like that make probs for the rest of us 20:18:08 JL -> heteronormative - nicuh! 20:19:13 Alex -> high school 20:19:18 Alex -> and no idea about the kids 20:19:45 angela -> talking about things like depend on so much: age of the kids, your raport with them (how often you see the kids and your level of trust with them), the level of their English and their maturity..... 20:20:02 angela -> hahah yeah, because kimchi cures homosexuality! 20:21:38 JL -> Hey Paco 20:21:47 Paco -> ello. 20:21:47 angela -> PACO!?!?! 20:21:59 Paco -> thats right. had to see val at work 20:22:07 Paco -> ;-) 20:22:09 angela -> Miss you, hun! 20:22:20 Paco -> me too! hows oz treating ya? 20:22:37 Alex -> What do you think about the issue? 20:22:49 angela -> ok.... if I could have my job here, in korea, I'd move back 20:23:03 Paco -> ahem...sorry. the issue...pray help me catch up. 20:23:15 Paco -> whos witchhunting gay folks? 20:23:21 JL -> Talking about this post: http://koreabridge.net/discussion/homosexuality-taught-americans-private... 20:23:38 angela -> in any school, you have to be careful with sensitive issues, being careful to discuss the issue without putting your own judgment or teaching that your opinion is the "right" one 20:23:45 JL -> principal at private christian school who was fired for complaining about some openly gay teachers 20:25:09 Paco -> wow...is this actually allowed in this country? 20:25:43 Alex -> I'm not sure 20:26:06 JL -> I get the sense there were some other ' 20:26:15 JL -> issue's with this prinicipal as well 20:26:20 angela -> You're also teaching outside of your own culture.... 20:26:23 Alex -> Agreed 20:26:25 JL -> e.g. - does not work well with others 20:26:31 Alex -> Not sure who was foreign in this situation 20:26:41 JL -> I think all teachers were 20:26:43 JL -> foreign 20:26:51 Alex -> okay thanks jl 20:27:06 angela -> Val: that happened for me in Korea, too. My contract wasn't renewed because I wanted to teach quality, and wasn't willing to just go along with the curriculum that was a load of sh** 20:28:06 Paco -> yeah but immediate dismissal surely is a little harsh. whether or not it is wise to be openly gay at a catholic school the labour laws in this country protects employees from being sacked that easily 20:29:13 Alex -> He was fired not for being gay but I think discriminating against people being gay 20:29:18 Alex -> and teaching about the issues 20:30:17 Paco -> ah, i see. even so being sacked is a bit harsh. whatever happened to a nice chat and a cup of tea 20:30:18 Paco -> ? 20:30:30 angela -> Paco: that doesn't happen in Korea 20:30:46 Alex -> Not sure 20:30:51 angela -> no such thing as "let's discuss the issue with the foreign teacher" 20:31:41 Paco -> well in that case sue the employers ass for wrongful dismissal and lack of tea facilities 20:32:07 Alex -> Go read the letter before you say that.... 20:32:08 angela -> haha. the empolyer in Korean and you are not, so he is right and you are not 20:32:33 Paco -> i reckon i ought to ...give us a minute 20:33:37 angela -> yeah... 20:33:42 angela -> agree with that 20:35:56 Alex -> Kellen you in the chat room? 20:36:03 Alex -> are you* 20:36:12 JL -> Should the foreign teacher be the one to decide where those lines get drawn or should they defer to the Korean powers that be? 20:36:35 angela -> you are in their culture; you have to defer to them, to a large extent 20:36:44 Alex -> I think it should be an open discussion 20:37:26 angela -> an open discussion with your korean boss? 20:37:32 angela -> good luck. 20:39:59 angela -> If the topic comes in class, in the context of something that is already being studied, then most kids (age-appropriately) would be interested in your input and perspective, provided you give it in a way which doesn't put down them or their culture 20:40:01 Paco -> ok ive read the letter but im a little confused. is this a university or a hagwon or what? 20:40:09 Alex -> private high school 20:40:52 Paco -> i see. 20:41:32 Paco -> what sort of sex education is actually taught in this country? 20:41:36 Alex -> aegyo time! 20:41:39 Alex -> no idea 20:41:48 Paco -> as in mandated by tnational curriculum. 20:42:12 val -> not sure any sex ed is taught 20:42:18 val -> *hug* hi Paco! 20:42:24 Paco -> hey gorgeous. 20:42:32 Paco -> aegyeo time tho. change subject 20:42:35 Paco -> :-) 20:43:32 val -> for those who want to catch up on aegyo http://joshinggnome.wordpress.com/2010/04/26/what-is-aegyo-and-how-can-w... 20:43:35 angela -> but to them, cute is sexy 20:43:55 angela -> the 28 year old aim to be "cute" 20:44:29 Alex -> exactly 20:44:37 Alex -> I don't think there is a line 20:44:43 Paco -> just look at the porn on offer in this country. Korean porn is all about women trying to look 15. cute and sexy is really quite muddled here 20:45:40 Paco -> scary idea though as kids do look at this and think its ok 20:46:20 angela -> the "ideal" woman in Korea is the helpless cutie - the 20 year old who tries to be 15 20:46:29 Paco -> true. 20:46:54 Paco -> and its a shame because korean men strike me as easily intimidated by strong women. 20:47:02 angela -> when the 13 y o girls do that, it's just showing they are learing young 20:47:31 angela -> paco, men from all countries are intimidated by strong women. why do you think I'm still single? 20:47:51 Paco -> haha....well thats cos you never gave me a chance ;-P 20:48:02 angela -> haha. you never asked for one ;) 20:49:26 angela -> the helplessness is largely manipulation 20:49:29 Paco -> kady was telling me how when she went on a date with a Korean fella, they tried one of those fair stands, a shooting gallery and whilst the guy tried to impress her, she ultimately was the better shot which funnily put him in a bad mood and ended the date. 20:49:43 angela -> hahah 20:50:15 angela -> I'm sure she knew that before she beat him 20:51:05 Paco -> perhaps but its interesting how he reacted. id be somewhat impressed if a girl i was dating was the better shot 20:51:33 angela -> what is that? 20:51:40 Paco -> the picture? 20:51:43 Alex -> can you see the picture 20:51:46 angela -> it's not very clear 20:51:49 angela -> what's it of? 20:51:54 JL -> it's a very small picture 20:51:54 angela -> 2 girls 20:51:59 Paco -> yep two girls wearing dresses 20:52:20 Paco -> kinda hot actually 20:52:21 angela -> how old are they? 20:52:25 Paco -> =) 20:52:27 Alex -> high school prom 20:52:32 Paco -> ah 20:52:37 Paco -> consider me backtrack 20:52:43 angela -> I don't see a problem with it 20:52:47 Paco -> oops 20:52:59 val -> :P 20:53:06 Paco -> cold shower moment 20:53:10 angela -> haha 20:53:36 JL -> http://koreabridge.net/prom.jpg 20:53:44 Alex -> Thanks Jeff 20:54:07 angela -> depends on the prom they are going to 20:54:45 Alex -> Agreed, I didn't think they were too terrible 20:55:01 Paco -> proms though are a sort of coming of age thing isnt it? a time where kids get to try and be grown ups for the night 20:55:20 val -> wow - thanks jeff 20:55:26 val -> that is a hot mess 20:56:12 Paco -> and subsidies from the states 20:56:28 Alex -> They created plenty of their own subsidies 20:57:14 angela -> korean's tend to value quantity over quality 20:57:37 Paco -> it is certainly impressive how the country has come from scorched earth to modern developed nation in barely a generation 20:57:57 Alex -> Read "Kicking Away the Ladder" great South Korean economic history 20:58:04 angela -> because being in the office "looks good" 20:58:29 angela -> It's all about appearances and "face" 20:59:25 angela -> absolutely it's for show 20:59:28 Paco -> val does have a point. koreans do confuse long hours at work with productivity. quality versus quantity 21:00:34 Paco -> or more the case that its easy to survive here in korea if you show good face and stay at your desk appeaking to do work. 21:01:00 angela -> you're talking about "hot housing" kids, which has been proven to be largely detrimental 21:01:11 Paco -> hot housing? 21:01:11 Alex -> what does hot housing mean? 21:01:33 angela -> "making" kids do all the extra curricula stuff 21:02:00 Alex -> ah 21:02:12 angela -> yes, to brag about all the stuff your kids do 21:02:42 Paco -> about the conspicuous wate business even the korean government agrees. the education minister was interviewed by the bbc and was quoted that the current system here has produced a generation of exam passing machines 21:03:02 angela -> it connects to the "quantity vs quality" attitudes Koreans have 21:03:30 Paco -> back in the states or even britain the promotion of extra curriculum activities does promote creativty 21:03:37 Paco -> creative people i mean 21:03:52 angela -> yes, but for the most part children choose it 21:04:00 val -> did you guys hear that? 21:04:04 angela -> ya 21:04:08 Paco -> k

Sorry to disappoint everyone,

Sorry to disappoint everyone, but there is a simple explanation for his diatribe: he's loonier than a toon. I am Teacher W. I teach math, computers, and economics. I don't know how I went off on a tangent to homosexual marriage when I was teaching tangents. People, read his rant. Don't go looking between the lines. The president of a major university fired him after listening to him for 10 minutes. As much as we think that homosexual marriage should be debated, you've chosen the wrong poster child.