Hi L B S
Problem is that in the 80's everyone in UAE said the same, then Saudi, then Kuwait, then Qatar, now even in China.
As I mentioned, foreigners in good, well established schools / unis probably have no concerns. I honestly have no concept of a teachers' life in Korea. I dread to think how I would try to survive on the figures you quote.
Westerners here to stay? Indians here to take our jobs? Employers will NEVER accept this! Just as you say, the racist card is always the one backstop that everyone hopes will stop the slide. Trouble is, it only takes one really good guy to work for a moderate employer, and the word goes around like wildfire. Cheaper and just as good.
The word pilot program also sounds very much similar to "thin end of the wedge"
Sorry LBS, been there too many times,done it, seen it too often.
As for treatment, you want to see treatment verging on sadism, try the Middle East countries.
Indian continental contingent in Middle East now outnumber the locals by 10%, makes for many masochists I think, or are they are prepared to accept the abuse as a matter of course?
Suppose one needs to compare whether that which they have in their own countries is worth the treatment in the new country.
Accent? Most of these guy come from an English education, with all the qualifications required, and in many cases, make my command of the English language more akin to Neanderthal Man.
Whilst I sincerely hope that the status quo remains the same, I cannot see this the case for very much longer.
I am here simply because my skills base cannot, AT PRESENT, be replaced by either Koreans or by cheaper nationalities.
My workplace is Koje, in the shipyards, and on a daily basis, I see the influx of Indian Continent employees growing by the day. I have no misconceptions, that should the day come when I can be replaced by cheaper labour with the same skills base, I will be persona non grata in a very short space of time.
This scenario chased me around the Middle / Far East and Asia. I have grown to accept it, something that many foreigners within Korea are also going to learn to accept it as a way of life.
"Being happy and so on because you have a job in Korea is crazy my man. People who try to sugar coat things about the reality of living here in Korea are simply trying to kid themselves. We are treated terribly here as a whole. Koreans need to learn they are not the center of the world and that all people are equal. Also, they should learn to treat people who are different from them better. Just 'being noble' and 'grateful' is hardly the answer."
I will disagree with you and the reason I am happy is that I am grateful to God for my job, my apartment, and other things that I have. I do not kid myself as I have faced the bad side of Koreans but guess what, westerners are far worse, even the ones who live here. So to think they have a monopoly on bad behavior means you are kidding yourself.
"Schools do not care about us so get what you can. So many times people at schools try to treat me like I am stupid-and this is not because they are the boss, they truly elieve they are superior. "
So? I do not care. My schools have treated me well and do not treat me as stupid. In fact I have had co-teachers asking me to join my summer and winter classes and teach with me. I come here to teach not expect the school or the teachers to cater to my whims and teach I do.
"Being passive is cool, though, as it leaves the better jobs for people like me who will get what I deserve from them and then move on"
Who is being passive? I take the jobs I want, in the areas that I want I can't complain because God helps me get them and you canhave the higher paying jobs, I work with and teach wonderful people. Teaching is far more important than being rich, and having good co-workers beats a large pay check.
"I will say I agree with Lee! Over the last few months I have been on here, him, Jay and a couple others keep getting slammed as complainers but as far as I can see, they are the only ones with their eyes open"
They are not the ones with their eyes open for their viewpoint is very selective and subjective. And if you always focus on the negative then you miss the good things and make things far worse for yourselves. If Ilet every bad act or minor negative act compell me to quit then I would not have the savings I have nor the friends that I have. Why let yourselves be robbed of good things?
"it is a way to say you are to insecure or scared to stand up for yourself and or others."
And you would be wrong about that.
"The whole argument we should be grateful is crazy considering people from India and the Phil are also able to do our jobs. Think about that! I think you are thinking about this backwards"
I do not think that Filipinos or Indians can do our job, they may be able to teach grammar but that is about it. They cannot teach the cultural nuances or influences that makes western english english. But I do not worry about it as I focus on doing a good job. No I am not thinking about things backwards. It i up to you how you want to live here-making friends, being nice or being mean and making enemies.
"We are all just monkeys here no matter where you are from, unless you become the tiger"
You may think you are a monkey but I am not and am not treated like one.
"Thanks for leaving me with great jobs "
Yet I have not as I have a great job and can fill only one at a time.
"We can argue back and forth but my mind is definately not going to change to the diea we should be grateful and so on. Crazy! We are all free people to do withour lives as we see fit so I am going to do just that and contine to call out BS when I see it."
That is your choice but I am not posting BS and I have a great time here. You reap what you sow , so if you bash and condemn Koreans for anything they do please do not complain when you are bashed and condemned--or worse.
"Being fair to yourself is better than being noble. Selling out is cheap and the sign of weak character in my books."
Yet I am not selling out and being noble is being fair to myself because having a job with lower pay is better than no job, no income, no home, no friends etc. It takes character to not be selfish, spoiled, demanding, greedy and so on; not the other way around.
Hello again K....I will admit that you are a worldly person and pretty much everything you say has played out but this isn't the world. This is Korea, the hermit kingdom and rightfully named such. I have never done anything else but teach EFL and live in Korea. I'm on year 15 out of college and 15 in Korea. I'm no expert but I think my time in country and dealing with Koreans is the only thing I do have a clue about.
I remember posting a response to this exact thread on pusanweb.com in the late 1990s. The sky was falling and the Indians&Filipinos were coming to take our jobs. They didn't come. It popped up again with the fake degree scandal in 2005-6, they didn't come. Here it is again in 2010 and nothing has changed in 15 years.
But....There is a new hiring wave, it's called the F2 and F5. There are even universities and colleges now that only hire F visa people. What I find amazing is that I know of two Filipino women whos' English is sufficient, enough to teach kids. They are married to Korean nationals, legal to teach under the law without any adsjustment totheir visa and still can't get a job at a gov't school. These women are permanent residents with degrees but EPIK(hiring agency for many gov't schools/programs) won't even call them back!! Why? Because.....
Koreans want the Twilight cast, Dawson's Creek crew of cardboard cut out cuties(male or female) they don't want 'dirty and smell' from India. I wish it weren't so but that's the truth and it's not going to change until Koreans change, which takes decades especially down here in the good ol' south where you and I live.
Take care.....got to run and clean the air-con filter now, it must be plugged up from the nasty construction abound.
Is there really John? I can't even go over to the jobs section, I just get too friggin angry. Please koreabridge do not allow numbers under 25,000w/class. (which is still too low). Please! I'll be good...I promise.
Dakota, are you for real?
"I love my job and my students and haven't ever even taken all my vacation days. I just thank God I'm not unemployed."
Please. Sounds like a chump to me.
"As I speak, I see a job for 15 000 per hour posted. Come on people! This kind of stuff is ridiculous. No one working ft gets paid this so why try and rip someone off and get them for that wage? Maybe dakota will do it but come on. I dont work for less than 35. How can jobs like this even exist? Oh ya, illegal workers. Go get it little doggy!"
If you do not work then you get $0 and do not eat. Being brave on the internet is easy, facing hunger is not.
"Is there really John? I can't even go over to the jobs section, I just get too friggin angry. Please koreabridge do not allow numbers under 25,000w/class. (which is still too low). Please! I'll be good...I promise."
And deprive someone of employment? Please, get real. Not everyone is as 'proud' or 'greedy' or 'selfish' etc., as you or anyone else who wants a high salary for little work. Why should YOU be angry? You have free choice, if you have a job, then the offer is none of your business and if you do not then you can choose not to apply. The concept is very simple but do not ruin it for others who want to work and make some money instead of being broke and on welfare.
"are you for real"
Yes and I am not a chump. I am not lacking for anything and I am content which makes my life much easier and more enjoyable.
Dakota, it's not about the payment, it's about the principal. It's what you as a person project about yourself. In life you get exactly what you pay for. That's why these jobs are in need of people; they have no worth. Education in Korea is no different than real estate. It's a ruthless industry unfortunately filled with a high percentage of cut throat scamsters.
You need 2nd language training to get a taxi medallion here but any idiot off the street can open a hogwan and employ foreigners with no training or English language skills what so ever. This is wrong.
"I wish koreabridge would allow comments on some of the job post, my god some of them are horrible and need to be taught a lesson."
Oh god, jesus, allah, buddah yes...i wish we could too, that would make the marketplace a lot more fair i think. or at least enlighten those who dont know.
I want to also thank you for this post, i realize after 4 years working here in the 8 years visiting, I have a lot more to learn.
Still, speaking for myself, with so many c--p offers out there, its hard to find a decent position, im married with an F2 working for a standard E2 wage as I couldnt find better, I have a BA and 3(going on 4) years FT exp here with great references and 3 years back home (adult-learning difficulties support work and dramaclass) but i just couldnt get any good offers.
It is shocking to have to scrape by each month. Perhaps im naive or just foolish...but I searched more sites than i know exist and still cant find much that beats 2.8 a month (all inclusive)
Wow, sorry.. It's not that hard..
Why are you commenting on a thread that was started 18 months ago?
Why are you commenting on a thread that was started 18 months ago?
If you look above you will see that someone commented prior to me..
As usual, all of the doom and gloom mongerers come out, especially when there's a job advertised, that isn't to their liking. Gold rush over, maybe for you, there never was one.As far as I see it, people are still making money if they want to do that.If it bothers you so much, report them. There are rewards for people doing privates, send them to the agency advertising this, or the Hakwon. Complaining on here is like "shitting on a chicken."Do you think the chicken cares?? Nobody, nobody but you, nobody nobody but you, I said nobody but you, -really gives a sh-t anywhere.Why can't some poor student earn a living teaching here at that rate. Please don't tell us and the employers how to run our lives.Gold rush , what a load of codswhallop.