Pay???

No teacher should get out of bed for less than 40K, un;less ur a 22 yo moron fresh out of community college!

Jay,

What you say makes great sense in theory but the reality is that it's all about supply and demand and right now, the supply greatly outnumbers the demand.

Try posting a job offer on pusanweb and see how many people apply? It's insane these days! I have over 50 qualifed people on the waiting list for jobs in Busan so I too have never seen anything like this before.

I would love to see salaries in Busan go to 2.5 or 3.0 million Won/month but right now, I'm just thankful that it hasn't dropped to under 2.1 or 2.2 million!

As for the part-time jobs, they are what they are. I make no money off these posting as they are just a favor to schools I know. Lots of people apply, I forward the e-mails to the schools and they contact the teachers and decide on the hiring. If you want more money then ask the school directly! If they really like you then they probably will pay more. If they don't then they probably won't even reply.

As for the price of p/t, I agree that 40,000+ Won/hr should be the going rate if you are teaching 1 or 2 classes as you are having to commute there and back. I personally wouldn't take less and have gotten much more in the past.

If it's a longer day, I don't see 25,000 Won/hr so bad especially if you are teaching 6 hours a day, which is the norm. That's 150,000 Won/day, 750,000Won/week, 3,000,000Won/month CASH! I often go and sub at schools for a week or so and I won't take less than 25,000Won/class or 30,000Won/hr but I doubt schools will pay more.

40,000Won/hr for 6 classes? That's 240,000Won/day, 1,200,000 Won/week, About 5,00,000 Won/month CASH. Years ago, I knew someone that did this but she was going to different places for each class so it was a lot of traveling. If someone can get it for a 6-hours shift then great! I'm all for that! But right now is probably not the best time as there seems to be too many people in town wanting jobs. Lots of F-2 and F-4 teachers and even more E-2 visa holders wanting p/t work.

"Qualified" as in they have all the necessary documents ready to get an E-2 visa and are waiting for a job in Busan.

Like I mentioned in my other post, the p/t jobs are just a favor to the schools. I make no money off of them at all and personally, I really couldn't care. All I do is send resumes to schools and they can negotiate whatever they want. The schools contact the teachers after that, not me!

And these are p/t jobs that I have posted as you have been so quick to remind!

If you think the jobs suck, then don't apply. How simple is that? However, there are enough people in Busan right now that are out of work or don't have very much work and in need of cash and a job. If you think I am taking advantage of them or doing them a disservice, that's fine and you are entitled to your opinions. But the people that get those jobs have mostly thanked me whether they liked the schools or not and if I meet them somewhere it's a good story to tell most of the times. These are p/t jobs so it's a quick buck for a day or a week or a month and in most cases, they would not sign up for a year. I'm sure that just as many schools are often unhappy with the teacher they are getting and would probably not sign them for a year. But they need someone for the day or the week so they do it. It's a 2-way street! And as it's p/t, if the teacher hates the school or the school hates the teacher, they can leave or cancel the next day as they aren't tied into a contract.

If this doesn't make sense to you then that's fine as well. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Again, we are talking p/t jobs!  If you feel proud of yourself because you talked someone out of taking a job that they wouldn't like then good for you. I have no qualms with that. However, if it's your intention of debasing people because they are willing or needing to take a job that you feel you're too good for, then what more can I say? I know people in Canada that think teaching in Korea is a joke. Maybe they're right but maybe they're wrong??? Who know? And what difference does it really make?

As an F5 visa holder I doubt you have many of us the payroll. You didn't address the fact of why you need to post ads if you have this bull-pen waiting. That is enough for me in itself. Avoiding such a simple conclusion makes you look like you are grasping at strays or hoping people don't understand what they read or can't add one plus one.

That's leaves E2 people(your words not mine) and you saying you get them part-time work quickly is impossible to do legally.  Part-time work takes at least a week or two turn-around time and documents required by immigration include a full-time schedule from your present employer among other things. In my experience and knowledge of this there aren't many hogwan directors that will tolerate their foreigner(s) working elsewhere, oh...you have free time? well here more work for you!! usually they will not concur to this addition to the visa.

Therefore most or many of these part-time jobs you get hogwans are indeed illegal because you are providing E visa people without the proper addition to their work visa.

Now you will come back and say you do, you don't. You provide a quick fix for people by your own admission and that equals illegal employment period. E2 people should be aware that there are severe consequences if one is caught outside the scope of one's job; fines are the minimum and usually a renewing of a visa is iffy.

Bottom line: these part-time jobs are illegal for E-visa holders and you are aiding in the process. There is no grey area here. This is a fact. E visa holders should be aware that outside of employment is illegal and you plat the game at your own risk. Eventually you will get caught.

Thanks for the offer but I'd rather not drink at all.  

 It is legal for a person with a E-2 visa to work a part time. One can get a letter of permission from their current boss, and go to immigration   to submit it along with their new part time contract. Once this is done immigration will add both jobs to their ARC.  You should probably be fact checked more often...

I know this for a fact also... 

 Do you have any specifics on those theories?

No worries. Nice day out finally....I axed my classes for today and going for a drive. Take care....

I have never liked these type of threads as they display the negative side of human nature and sts a very bad example to students--that greed, selfishness, ill-treatment of others, being spoiled etc. are good. They are not and teachers need to look upon teaching, not as a get rich profession, but as a service profession.

We sacrifice so that others will learn properly and be good people when they grow up. I am usually embarassed by the westerners who need to demand more money, raises, many vacation days or that they be paid for their unused sick days. Such people are very bad teachers who teach very bad things. Their bad character undermines any paper qualification they have obtained.

Teachers who come here, or want to teach anywhere, should have the attitude that they love to teach and that they came to teach not see how much money they can be paid or how many days they can avoid being in the classroom. Students certainly deserve  such people and not those who see them as an inconvenience or  insult them behind their backs  as they seek 'adventure' or pay their loans off.

I love to teach, I love being in the classroom and I love my students. I do not need many vacation days, do not need to be paid for sick days, do not need to demand extra benefits I do not deserve. I have never taken a sick day, last year was the first time I used my full contractual vacation days but that was due to calendar scheduling as more classes could not be organized (yes I ask to teach many hours during summer and winter vacation and I do not get double pay I only take my monthly salary so the students can attend for free/cheaper).

I can almost guarantee that everyone of you who are saying 'do not take those low paying jobs' will take a low paying job if the situation was -you either go hungry or you can put food on the table' I took a pay cut to remain at my school because teaching is more important than being greedy, selfish, spoiled or hurting my students.

If you look at the salary and you can see that you can live on that and still save some money, then take the job for working beats non-working and somewhere down the line you will may be able to get another better paying job after you finish the present contract.. But to act like spoiled little children who refuse to 'get out of bed' for less than $____ just shows how unqualified you are as a teacher.

You also have a false impression as to your worth as an employee, teacher as your attitude  ruins any contribution you may make to the school or your students. Those of you who have the attitude of the above posters, please get out of teaching because you are contributing to the problems society has not solving them.

Oh and not one of my employers has ever taken advantage o fme but I have recieved respect, acceptance, treated as an equal and other benefits that have helped my students be better english speakers and people.After all, teaching is about the student NOT the teacher. If you cannot live with what i soffered to you then quietly reject the offer and do not bash them on public forums for it is only you who looks bad because you certainly do not know the financial health, responsibilities and other circumtances that your potential employer must meet. You only look at the part of the picture that justifies your bad attitude.

Dakota-

It's great that you care so much for your students and you have such a honest mindset when it comes to teaching...But I think you are missing the point. This is a job, and you should view yourself as a valued employee who, in exchange for teaching, receives compensation. I don't constantly think about myself, but I do know that I should be compensated adequately for my time and work.

I do not have to thinkof myself as a 'valued employee' that is up to the employer. If you had read what I wrote you would have seen thepart where I said 'if you can live with the salary being offered then... but...' I did not say anything about working for free or for less than a reasonable wage but I do not agree with the idea of demanding an amount that is too large.

The employer gets to set the wage not the employee after all it is his money, his job, he has to pay the bills, the rent, recruit students pay for your apartment and so on. he wants to make some money as well and he is not there to just give his money to a westerner because they have an inflated view of themselves (or some other sinful characteristic).

This year Korea is allowing employers to hire Indians and guess who made that happen--the selfish, greedy, whining, complaining, etc. westerner who did midnight runs abused their employers, and kept demanding more and more money, more luxuries apartments and other perks they did not earn.

if you can't be content with a little then you will never be content with a lot.

"The employer sets the wage"

Yes he does. the market does not pay his bills nor do the people. He has sole say on what he will pay. No One said anything good about working for nothing and no one said you couldn't negotiate but the employer still has the last word. If he can't afford to pay then he won't. he still sets the wage.

"I make my living teaching so people posting junk jobs looking for these illegal teachers is wrong and should be able to be called out."

I do not agree with illegal teachers either but some westerners demand too much forcing the employer to do something drastic. If they go out of business you have no income. zIt is in you rbest interest to be smart not demanding.

"when they hurt the integrity of the market when doing so"

the 'integrity of the market' has nothing to do with anything. If that is what you are worried about I would hate to be your student. That comment tells me how low your students come on your priority list and it is appalling. The market can go get bent, the teacher's first concern should be his or her students not their own pocketbook or bank account.

"And the idea we should be greatful "

Actually you should be grateful that you have a job that gives you a salary,a home, a pension payout, medical and you should be thankful to God that you are working anywhere instead of being unemployed, homeless and other nasty things. I understand that you may not believe but I do and I will mention that last bit because I am certainly grateful for what I have.

"You are  teacher at a school run and owned by someone with no educational background; people who are just trying to make a buck like everyone else"

So? That doesn't justify any teacher from being like them or worse and not caring for their students and keep them presenting the best material in class. The employer's status has no bearing on the job you were hired to do--teach.

"get what you can"

That is not the qualified teacher's attitude. That comes from all those 'sports heros' who have fueld this greed and selfish mentality coming out of the west and ruining the games they play as they make it impossible for the real people who have supported their profession over the decades and put it in the hands of the rich elite. I am not a communist or a socialist but I do see injustice in that and in those who carrying that attitude into teaching.

"We are university graduates"

So? You are not the only ones to have a college degree and it does not make you 'special'. it just means you graduated from a university and it doesn't indicate if you did it honestly or not. Real education comes after university, anybody can write papers, do assignments and take tests. It is another thing to be able to teach people like yourself.

" I was lied to by first recruiter and ended up living 30 minutes away from my school-by bus"

Wow, you were inconvenienced, it happens all over the world and I am sure the North Koreans in those labor camps would gladly exchange places with you and relieve your suffering.

"I bailed " "I bailed again"

You reap what you so. i can see by your words that your attitude probably brought more of the same back on you so you have only yourself to blame. This is Korea, a different culture, if you want to be treated like western employers treat their employees please go back there and you will see that they are just as dishonest, superior, hard to change etc. as you claim the Koreans are.

"You are awfully pro-Korean here "

It is not a crime nor a sin to be such and you need to learn your place. You are not the boss but the employee you suck it up if you do not like it, keep your word, do your job and when your contract ends you move on. It is better to treat them better than they treat you.

"We are treated like crap here!"

Not really, just some who treat the Koreans like crap. I have been treated quite well and so have many, many others. Again you reap what you sow.

" It should be an embarrassment to the schools and Korea but it is not because they do not care"

It isn't and it shouldn't be for the Korean people were not raised on western culture  and westerners need to realize that the western culture is not the supreme nor the correct way to go, especially when you are in another country thathas its own cultural rules and ways. The westerner must adapt not the national. There are bad people in every country and if you are so concerned about bad employers maybe you should go after those in New York who force their employees to sow for 10-12 hours a day with little breaks or medical attention or other benefits. or have barmaids and waiters be paid minimum wage instead of just tips.

Or maybe you should return to Canada and make life better for the immigrants there who are treated worse than you are treated by Koreans.

"The idea that hiring if Indians is because of whiny foreigners is way off the mark I think"

I will disagree as the Koreans have suffered much by those who do midnight runs, who refuse to work unless their selfish demands are met, who demand more and more and are never satisfied, plus think that the Koreans are here to please and serve them.

" If they want a good teacher, that is what they have to do and I do not fell bad for that. "

No,  good teachers will do their jobs right and complete follow their contracts and not make things worse for their students or the next person who replaces them. They do not depend upon their employers to set the example, they do it first.

Good morning to you all.

Dear killhallon

I would agree with you in regards to the yellow brick road ending if I didn't know Korean mothers any better.What I mean by this is simple; they are racist. They simply will not have Filipinos or Indians or any other non-white peoples here teaching their children en mass. I have seen this racism personally on at least ten occassions over the years and the discussion of this is not a new one. I have been waiting now for 10 years for the people from the places above to come and take my job away. It hasn't happened, I truthfully don't think it will. Our jobs may degress as a whole but I think westerners will still be at the helm of this ghost ship.

Why? Because of the things that John V. mentioned. If you think Koreans treat us badly how well do you think they will treat some 22year old woman from India? Westerers get no respect at gov't schools now, they will treat these Asian non-native speakers of English like dogs. Korean mothers will not have someone darker or country 'poorer' than them teach their kids, nor do they want the accent, that pretty much sums it up.   

The pilot program allowing Indians to come here is a small one, mostly placed in Kangwang-do, the poorest of the provinces and most remote. All it takes is one police matter or one fake degree scandal and this house of cards will fall. 

More later......coffee time.